How to run a faster marathon?

Hi Bernie77 I used the The McMillan Running Calculator (http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm) and input your best 10K (38:20) and half marathon (1:27:30), which gives your marathon time as 2:59:54 - 3:04:32. This indicates that if you maintain your current fitness level in the coming season, you either just achieve your goal or just miss the goal :( To play safe, I would suggest you to put your marathon goal aside at the moment and work out a plan to improve your time for shorter distance first. Say start with 10K (which can be taken as a good indicator of marathon time), and your goal is to bring your 10K time down to 38 min (which should gives you 2:58:20 according to the same calculator). This should be more manageable because for example you can work out how fast you need to run a 38 min/10K and do some goal pace training or time trials to monitor your progress. Your current training looks fine to me, and perhaps you just need to do everything a little harder. Anyway, your goal of doing a sub-3 marathon looks realistic and highly achieveable. If you think I can help, you are most welcome to write to me to discuss further. You can write to me using the Contact Us form at http://www.hkrunners.com/?q=contact

From my own experience, just increase your weekly KM from 85k to 100k will get you under 3 for sure. It may even get you to 2:50 - 2:55. Your current KM is on the low side for marathons. YOu will be amazed what a little more running would do.

Thanks Keith and Berlingirl... this is why this running boards is very useful! I definitely also believe in mileage, but am constrained in terms of work, travel and family (the usual) more than physical. But will try to boost it, as my last three marathons were easy 85K/week peaks phsyically. Will also try to focus on the shorter 10K. I struggle most with running fast, as long distance is more natural. Definitely getting a bit lazy (5 weeks rest now, mileage at 30K/w), and need to keep pushing with tempo/interval work. Actually focusing on a 10K in my pre-cycle or early stage in coming months might be a good idea before reintroducing the 30k+ long runs. Maybe Lok Wah Cup or another early race as target... Next marathon November 30 in Lake Kawaguchi, so still have time!

I was hanging out in another more "serious" running forum and a marathon coach is giving out advice to a bunch of serious runners. The interesting thing is that the coach calls 70 miles/week (112km) "low mileage". He prefers if his runners do at least 80-100 miles a week (128k-160k)! Bernie, I think you have good potential and the only way for you to even approach your "limit" is to run 100km+/week. I think running a lot is more of a choice. If you think it is important to you, then you will make the sacrifices. Come to think about it, running 10 mins more every day will easily get you up from 80k to 100k. Even if you are the busiest person on earth, it would be hard to argue that you do not have 10 mins a day to spare :-) In contrast to popular belief on hkrunners.com, running "higher" mileage, not lower, is the safest way to injury-free marathon success.

ok here are some interesting tips...which i guess you already know.... when training try and run faster than before but if body is tired then listen and slow down . rest for about two months after a tough marathon , give your body plenty of time to recover.....eat a macdonalds if you like that . Train with a heart monitor and use it http://hk.myblog.yahoo.com/dmc7779

sorry forgot to add the comments were from some guy called Haile Gebrselassie.... http://hk.myblog.yahoo.com/dmc7779

In a slow moment at school I googled how to run a faster marathon and this interesting past snippet from this website emerged. I think that Keith is on the money with getting the short race times down but find that running more miles is essential to that happening too. At any rate two years later Bernie is well under 3-hours now according to the rankings. I am interested to read what advice he has on how he achieved his goal.

P.S I had McDonald's last night for the first time in ages and this morning's 8-miler was shocking. So I am not interested in any advice from Haile ;)

Go hard to go home!

Interesting to revive old questions with new answers. My main improvements to 2:45 remain:
* Higher mileage; peak at 125km in 2:45 cycle -> now at 145km peak (11 wks from the next marathon).
* More intensity; added a high octane interval session most Tuesdays. This next to traditional weekly tempo (30-45min).
* Consistency; logging consistent mileage (60-80+km/week average for last 1-3 years) during the last years.
* More marathon pace running for new cycle; incorporating marathon pace segments (5-20km) in long runs.
* Staying healthy...

But then again, I am still a relative slow-boat on short distances with 1:22:30 on HM and 37:XX in 10K! In the off-season I try to work on shorter stuff. Plenty of much faster and experienced runners in HK, also in the Marathon... So overall, a lot of hard work ahead and a lot to be learned from others :-)

http://hk.myblog.yahoo.com/dmc7779

haha kevin , your supposed to eat the macdonalds after the race not before !

I knocked a half an hour off my marathon time (and qualified for Boston) by increasing my mileage, but more importantly by doing more long runs, including some back to backs and one 50K training run. I really didn't add much speed work and I ran only three or four days a week (a couple of ten milers in the middle of the week and then a really long run on the weekend or back to back long runs of shorter distance). I know that adding speed work would have taken my time down some more, but all I am saying is that the mileage was important. For someone at your level there is an excellent book called "Advanced Marathoning" by Pfitzinger and Douglas.

Cheers for that Bernie (I think locking into MP paces* are essential in training and 35 minutes saved by upping the ks = very nice), Gary and Mike. I am actually reading Advanced Marathoning at the moment and I like what I see.

Go hard to go home!

In the days when I was running marathons, I had a very simple regime.
I swore by the 1 hour or 10 miles/day with 1 day off and up to 2 hours on Sundays. All but one of my marathons was run sub 2:30 with this simple regime.
I used a series of 10 mile races to lead up to my marathons, usually 3 10's in the 5 weeks before the race, (unfortunately what was a classic distance is no more). This got my race pace upto to allow the marathon pace to feel relatively easy.
Within some of the hour runs, I would incorporate some fartlek or intervals (usually mile efforts).
This was at a time when club runners in UK were looking to get up to 100 miles/week to run a decent marathon. But that milage did not allow you time off to race every week as I did. My regime allowed me to race from 1500 up to marathon and leave me strong enough to recover quickly, often racing the week after the marathon.

fast01, good advise. Simple and focused on getting good mileage per week which is the straightforward (none)secret to a good marathon time. Not too many 16k races these days but I guess a couple of 1/2 marathons mixed with 10ks would have the same effect. As I have got older i have found it beneficial to break the 16k per day into 2 to help recovery especially if trying to push up to the 100 mile level you mention. I completely believe the 100 miles, 160k per week is needed for seriously quick marathon times. There is no short cut.You are also right to highlight the need to be focused on only specific races to limit the impact on training.